Dartlog: 08/18/2002 - 08/25/2002

The Dartmouth Review

Friday, August 23, 2002

In response to Michael Sevi '02

I read Mr. Sevi's response to the criticism on the "inter-group dating" discussion he organized last winter. I am indeed the writer of the article published in The Review last winter on this discussion. I was also present for the discussion. I must say, regardless of the plan for the discussion, I was forced to report on what actually took place. The discussion was not advertised nor conducted under any assumption that it was a "group of individuals who generally do not let race or religion bias their behavior towards others" but "when it comes to dating and marriage they suddenly allow these factors to become relevant." During the actual event, those who spoke made the general point that basically they could not fathom marriage or dating outside a group of people who were not similar or exactly like themselves with regard to religion and race. Nobody spent time discussing the contradiction which was the "premise" of the talk. Therefore, the theme of my piece reflected what I heard. How can someone be on principle open to all races and religions make an arbitrary choice to date only people within their race or religion? It just doesn't make sense. I'm not passing judgement on the actual choice itself, but on the contradiction of the discussion's apparent "premise." Either race or religion do not affect you or race and religion affect you and it isn't something that you're liberal and open to in one case and close-minded in the next. It is much more complex and the discussion did not address this dilemma. Also, on a side note, I would like to mention that my last name is spelled "Jeffe" NOT "Jaffe."

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Alison at 10:13 AM (0 comments)

And finally...

Thank you, Col. Donovan '39!

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Andrew Grossman at 1:08 AM (0 comments)

More on "inter-group dating"

Michael Sevi '02 sends in his take on the inter-group dating discussion:

Being the person who concieved and helped organize the inter-group dating discussion that took place last winter, I am honored to know that it is still being discussed. However, the event is being mischaracterized for the sake of making a point... [A] group of individuals who generally do not let race or religion bias their behavior towards others gathered to discuss why when it comes to dating and marriage they suddenly allow these factors to become relevant. That this contradiction exists was the starting premise of the conversation.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Andrew Grossman at 12:43 AM (0 comments)

The facilitators are taking over

That's the real lesson in all this.

I mean, who could take a statement like this seriously:

Respecting the needs of students on campus is not a militant movement. It is an effort to acclimate this campus to the diverse student body that it prides itself on. Different textures of hair require different care and treatment. It is a shame that many students come to Dartmouth only to find that some of their basic hygienic and cosmetic needs cannot be met.

And their suggestions are littered with words and phrases like "dialogue," "Awareness," "'I' statements," and "equity issues."

I'm starting to have some boundary issues. Can we discuss this in the third person?

Yes, the facilitators are taking over, and we're all doomed (well, those of you on campus are). Attending Mount Holyoke must be like this, except with a few more lesbians.

OK, somebody dump out the recycling bins. I want to have a drum circle, damnit!

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Andrew Grossman at 12:34 AM (0 comments)

Thursday, August 22, 2002

Alumni/alumnus

Why can't people get this right? I'm more embarrassed by the pervasiveness of this grammatical mistake than by Mr. Grossman.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by alex at 7:33 PM (0 comments)

Lighten up, eh?

Just received this gem...in reference to Andrew's comments:

">Date: 22 Aug 2002 16:21:51 EDT
>From:
>Subject: Call for Concern
>To: (Recipient list suppressed)

**************************
Dear Dartmouth Community,

Recently we received several emails from Dartmouth community members (students, faculty, staff, and alumni) who have expressed concern about a message posted on "dartlog.net" on August 14th.

In further reviewing the statement, we are deeply saddened and concerned by the use of inaccurate, insensitive, and stereotypical statements made by a recent Dartmouth alumni.

Our offices strongly support freedom of speech and believe that this alumni has every right to express his personal opinions. However, we felt compelled to express our concern because we believe that these types of statements violate the Dartmouth Principle of Community and send a dangerous message that it is socially acceptable to make fun of and stereotypes One's race and culture.

We commend Student Assembly (SA) and the Student Services Committee (SSC) for initiating the process of providing better equity for hair care services for all students. Bringing black hair care professionals, who specialize in working with different hair textures, to our campus is only the first and important step in meeting Students' basic needs. SA and SSC's leadership symbolize how we, as a community, can work together to help create an inclusive and welcoming institution for all.

We encourage our community to use this incident as an opportunity to reflect on the things that many of us take for granted at Dartmouth as well as the importance of avoiding passing judgment on others different than ourselves.

For those of you who have expressed an interest in responding to this incident, here are just a few ways to assist with this effort. Please don't hesitate to contact any of us if you have any questions or concerns.

WHAT TO DO?

* Keep the Dialogue Going- have individual or group discussions with your roommate, siblings, parents, friends, hallmates, etc. about this issue. Talk about how this makes you feel and why you think it is harmful?

* Raise Awareness -send this email to anyone that you know to raise awareness and encourage them to do something pro-active about this. This helps to challenge the myth that we don't have more work to do related to talking about equity issues.

* Take Action - use this as a learning moment and write an Op-Ed in the D (or send out a statement of your own) to help the entire Dartmouth Community understand why these types of stereotypes can really be dangerous even if they are meant as a joke.

* Agree to Disagree - share your concerns directly to the alumni as a way to express yourself but not to convince him he's wrong (remember to use "I" statements).

* Take Care of Yourself and Pick Your Battles - it's alright if you don't have the energy to do something proactive at this time. However, if this incident has bothered you... we encourage you to reach out to a trusted friend, faculty or staff member to talk about your feelings and reactions to this statement.

Sincerely,

Student Life Advisors and Directors at Dartmouth College

Orion Gillette
Dawn Hemphill
Alex Hernandez Siegel
Pam Misener
Giavanna Munafo
Nora Yasumura

****************************
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS ISSUE CHECK OUT-

* The D article entitled, "Black hairstylists fulfill minority student need."
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=200208130103

* What the alumni, Andrew Grossman '02 wrote:
http://www.dartlog.net/archives_r.php?archive=2002_08_11_archive.inc

* A letter to editor in the D titled "Call for Concern" by Sam Stein '04 on 8/21/02
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=200208210202

* A statement that a student has distributed via blitz.

Freedom of speech? Yes by all means. Bigotry at MY Dartmouth? Absolutely not!

Such a destructive, close-minded, racist attitude as the one expressed on
Dartlog.net on August 14, 2002 has no place in a culturally enlightened learning
environment like Dartmouth College. Or at least I would like to think so.

We claim to be progressive and diverse. Yet how is it possible that one of our
fellow students could have gone through four years at $38,000 per year and
graduated with such astounding ignorance?

Respecting the needs of students on campus is not a militant movement. It is an
effort to acclimate this campus to the diverse student body that it prides
itself on.

Different textures of hair require different care and treatment. It is a shame
that many students come to Dartmouth only to find that some of their basic
hygienic and cosmetic needs cannot be met. Bringing a black hair specialist
from Burlington, VT is a significant step but still shows that we have far to go
before such service is available in Hanover more than one day out of the year.

Clearly the ignorance expressed on Dartlog.net is rooted in deep insecurities
and lack of respect for differences among people. Associating "New York based crack
dealers" and an "authentic 'Ghetto Party'" with the needs of African-American
and Latino students on campus is a clear act of racism and ignorance.

This type of destructive attitude should not be the goal of any student at
Dartmouth College on their graduation day. Apparently our effort to provide a
progressive, diverse environment to grow in has failed miserably. We have to
work harder.

I urge you to join me and say that this form of racist expression will not
be tolerated at Dartmouth College and on any form of literature associated with
our school.

Please feel free to pass this on to anyone you know.

Sincerely,
Paola A. Peacock-Villada
Dartmouth College class of 2003

**************************

--- End of forwarded text ---

*************************
Keira S. Kant
Community Director
Dartmouth College
HB 6112
Hanover, NH 03755

603/646-0978"

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Ryan at 6:21 PM (0 comments)

I have posted on DartLog practically never. But, I heard my name was mentioned and I began reading it again. I would like to comment on something Mr. Begley said. Recently he wrote, "Incidentally, if you and I are posting at 5:00 and 5:30 in the morning, we really need to get lives." I have to say that perhaps the conservative voice on campus is working overtime and needs to take a nap!

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Posted by Alison at 2:41 PM (0 comments)

Ah, to feel like a jackass

Sorry, Steve. I got a little over-excited when I thought I could actually argue against you, and the sarcasm went right over my head.

Returning to the more mundane topics that Dartlog is more accustomed to, do you think really Smith can beat Shaheen?

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Rollo at 10:33 AM (0 comments)

Earth to Dartlog

As I wrote to an irate emailer yesterday, if some sarcastic remark on a chat website can cause so much anguish to people and embarassment to the college, then there's something seriously wrong with those people and that college. This Stein person found a silly comment he didn't like online and decided to launch a call to arms for the "progressive community" at Dartmouth. The only appropriate response to that is to snicker. And, finding it funny, that's what I did. But you people need to lighten up.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Steven Menashi at 9:02 AM (0 comments)

Ah, to be a 's�f-"mOr

There was no outcry when a discussion came to a consensus against the concept of intergroup dating, but we thought there should have been, so Alison Jeffe wrote (and you published) an article on the topic, hoping to stir an outcry. You and Stein may not be so different.

Stein�s remarks were based on the information he had, and he repeatedly stated that you have the right to say what you did. As such, his comments were not �in disregard of [your] rights� or �preconceived.� Perhaps he should have gotten more information about you before launching a personal attack, but, based on the information in front of him, his comments were also not �irrational� or �without just grounds.� Hence, I�m not sure that the definition of prejudice that you linked to really applies here.

In regards to your claim that Stein was nowhere to be seen when TDR published the intergroup dating article, you�re right, I don�t recall seeing or hearing anything from him. But so what? You and Alison were right that it�s a bunch of BS that the multicultural groups would apparently be opposed to intergroup dating. Stein, on the other hand, has chosen to fight this battle, and he�s right in that you should �rectify this mistake and demonstrate to us all that this was an error in judgment� (although I grant you that that�s a pretty vague request).

Incidentally, if you and I are posting at 5:00 and 5:30 in the morning, we really need to get lives.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Rollo at 5:35 AM (0 comments)

Remember this, Rollo

How much of an outcry was there when a (very progressive) panel discussing "intergroup dating" concluded against the practice? There was none.

So now the present matter: I think, at worst, my previous comments were only puzzling and not racist, as they don't indicate any sort of racial prejudice--far from it, they were intended sarcastically and might be as effectively replaced by an entry suggesting that J. Crew or Abercrombie will soon take over the Co-op and College athletic outfitting and that Kenneth Lay will be a visiting professor in the fall at Tuck. Slippery-slope sarcasm: get it?

It is apparent that I didn't make myself clear. In this day and age, resolving such things is what email is for. Right?

So both humorous and troubling are the wild conclusions to which Sam Stein leaps in the D. According to him, I am "narrow-minded," abusive of my rights (which Stein seems eager to take from me, anyway), pitiable, and guilty of having been "racist." Stein has made his uncharitable assessment of me on the basis of very little data, less than 100 words altogether. It's a Plato's problem, and this missing information (that which gets us from "numbers-runners" to "racist") must be coming from somewhere, right? Most likely, Stein thought it up himself.

Well, there's a word for this: prejudice.

Consider that when several black students made overly racist remarks--admitting, in fact, to racially-motivated behavior--Stein (now known to us as a racial activist, agitator, etc.) was nowhere to be seen. When a (former) writer for The Review publishes remarks that are less racist than incomprehensible, Stein is shocked and outraged (not to mention, as Menashi did, self-contradictory and seemingly-confused).

So what accounts for this discrepancy? Is Stein biased against white students, students who have written for the Review, or students (and alumni) who enjoy too many gin and tonics before posting things online, or is it some other group of which I am a member that he dislikes? Without one of these, Stein's accusations couldn't be.

Of course, I could be charitable and suggest a different motivation for Stein's letter. Look this one up.

Ah, to be a sophomore!

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Andrew Grossman at 4:50 AM (0 comments)

Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Menashi

Yeah, there are some flaws in Stein�s analysis, but for the most part, I think it holds up. Of course Dartlog and TDR are a part of the Dartmouth community; Dartmouth is not a gated community where Parkhurst controls every aspect of our life (although it�s getting closer). By intending itself for the Dartmouth population and often devoting itself to the issues of campus, Dartlog (and The Review) become a part of our community, just as off-campus parties are a part of our Dartmouth experience. Dartlog�s legal affiliation with the college is irrelevant in a discussion on Dartlog�s impact on the students of the college.

Furthermore, Stein argues not that Dartlog �needs to be ended,� but that �heartless and racists comments� are �unacceptable behavior� and need to be ended. I�m sure Grossman can (and will) make a legitimate argument against the hairstylists, but his crack dealer comment fell somewhere on the wrong side of legitimate arguments. While I agree that it is slightly odd that Stein would argue that Grossman�s words �should not be posted for others to see� and then print them in the D, Stein can certainly make an argument that printing Grossman�s words are a necessary evil.

As for your �critical reaction� argument, the point of Stein�s article seems not so much outrage that Grossman�s comments can occur, but that Grossman�s comments can occur without reaction from progressives. As such, Stein�s article is less a straight �critical reaction� than a critical reaction to a (lack of) critical reaction.

While Stein�s article may be addressed to Grossman, you are perfectly aware that open letters tend to be published for an audience other than that to which they are addressed. While it tends not to be standard practice to explicitly state the audience of an open letter, I see no reason why it can�t be done.

While I don�t entirely understand your argument that leads to Grossman being described as progressive, I find the conclusion highly entertaining. The biggest flaw in Stein�s article, though, is that it is addressed to the progressive community. The implication there is that the conservative and moderate elements of campus are incapable of being outraged at racism.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Rollo at 11:10 PM (0 comments)

Attn: Coulter fans

I know Rollo isn't the only one out there. George Gurley w/ Ann Coulter in the New York Observer. She says she's dated Dinesh and "every right-winger."

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by alex at 7:48 PM (0 comments)

Stein

Good call Steven. He is an idiot. He's also a loser.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Nilanjan at 7:14 PM (0 comments)

Whatever

Well, that's good advertising for Dartlog, I guess, but it strikes me that there are a few problems with this Sam Stein fellow's analysis. There is, for example, the assertion that "this unacceptable behavior exists and thrives throughout the campus community and that it needs to be ended." Of course, Mr. Grossman is no longer a student at Dartmouth or part of the "campus community" and Dartlog is similarly not affiliated with the College in any official way. So I would gather that by "it needs to be ended," Mr. Stein is suggesting that Dartmouth College block on-campus access to offensive off-campus websites or, perhaps, seek out and destroy all unacceptable opinions among its alumni. That can't be the case, however, because Stein acknowledges both "the right to opinion and the right to express your opinion." And, while Stein does insist that Grossman's words "should not be posted for others to see," he repeats them verbatim -- right there, in the pages of the Daily D! Surely, he's just exposed a whole lot of people to these words, who would have otherwise escaped the trauma of reading them. Sam doesn't even mean his letter to be a critique, for as he bemoans, "The fact that your ridiculous, opinionated comments can be posted on the internet and not precipitate a critical reaction is disturbing." So his letter, it turns out, is not even a "critical reaction," since no such reaction has yet been precipitated. Rather, Sam explains, "I write this out of pity for you Mr. Grossman" and then proceeds to address Mr. Grossman directly. Yet for some reason Sam feels compelled to explain that "This is not a call to the African-American community of Dartmouth." That caveat strikes me as quite unnecessary, since Sam has already explained that his letter is addressed to "Mr. Grossman," and I have never mistaken Mr. Grossman to be the African-American community. But then Sam abruptly alters course, announcing, "this is a plea for the progressive minded people on this campus. Understand that this unacceptable behavior exists and thrives throughout the campus community and that it needs to be ended. The good fortune that this event occurred towards the end of the term rescues you from the humiliation you deserve." And so it appears that, in fact, Mr. Grossman is the progessive minded people! Or Sam Stein is an idiot. Either way.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Steven Menashi at 12:33 PM (0 comments)

A Grossman fan

G-dog is still making the pages of the D.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by alex at 11:21 AM (0 comments)

Tuesday, August 20, 2002

Hope for Indian football?

Gene Orsenigo '34 edits the classnotes for his class in the Alumni Magazine. A football aficionado, Orsenigo mentioned two points of hope for Dartmouth in 2002 and beyond in the Sept/Oct issue. Apparently, Dan Shula '06 is coming in at WR (son of Dave Shula, former Dartmouth WR, of Ben Hart's "Poisoned Ivy" fame; grandson of Don Shula, former Miami Dolphins coach). Nice pedigree. We also are getting a transfer student who lettered as the third-string QB at Wisconsin last year. Wah-hoo-wah.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by alex at 4:30 PM (0 comments)

Auto-Bloggery

I bet not even Talcott could find this one online, so I might as well direct you myself to my seminal work on the 1990s, "The Empty Decade." The AFF site, on which it appears, also maintains a pretty good listing of DC jobs, for all you aspiring wonk-types.

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Posted by Steven Menashi at 2:44 PM (0 comments)

Monday, August 19, 2002

Alternatively...

The National Organization for Women has endorsed Shaheen. No word yet on their endorsements for the War Crimes Tribunal.

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Posted by Rollo at 8:44 PM (0 comments)

The UN: Axis of Evil

Libyan dictator and Terrorist from Tripoli Gadaffi to head United Nations Commission on Human Rights.

Later in the week, bin Laden to be appointed head of War Crimes Tribunal.

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Posted by Ryan at 8:26 PM (0 comments)

On the Other Hand
President Bush supports Bob Smith, Rudy Giuliani supports Bob Smith, Bibi Netanyahu supports Bob Smith, Gordon Humphrey supports Bob Smith, everyone who matters supports Bob Smith.

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Posted by Steven Menashi at 11:35 AM (0 comments)

Sunday, August 18, 2002

The Word of (my) God

The National Review supports Sununu in the primary. Here and here.

Full post and comments below the fold.

Posted by Rollo at 4:09 AM (0 comments)